Two Indian law graduates now lead the Herbert Smith India practice

In 2010, Siddhartha Shukla found himself working at an international law firm, straight out of an Indian law school. Over 15 years later, he would become one of persons calling the shots at a practice of that very firm.

Dhananjaya Chak has a similar story, having joined Herbert Smith Freehills, as it was then known, as a Senior Associate in 2015. Together, they recently became co-heads of the India practice at HSF Kramer, while Alan Montgomery has taken over as the Chair of the India practice.

They all take over from Chair Chris Parsons, who recently retired from the firm and former co-head Roddy Martin who continues to be a key member of the India practice.

In this interview with Bar & Bench's Pallavi Saluja, Shukla and Chak speak about journeys - their own paths as well as the growth trajectory of Indian markets and Indian lawyers abroad.

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Edited excerpts follow.

Pallavi Saluja (PS): You're both Indian law graduates, dual-qualified, based in London and now the new co-heads of the Indian practice at a global law firm. What does that signal to the Indian legal community?

Siddhartha Shukla (Sid): When DJ (Dhananjaya Chak) and I joined the firm in London about 15 to 18 years ago, there weren't that many Indians; there were very few of us in the city. Since then, a lot has changed in the London legal market. There are very talented young law students who are there right now, working in these big law firms.

For us, it's been a fantastic journey; we have learned a lot over a period of time with some fantastic lawyers, international lawyers and mentors. We've done some incredible deals. For young law students and lawyers looking at us, we didn't have anybody like us at that point in time to look up to, but hopefully, we can help more people join the partnership in international law firms.

Dhananjaya Chak (DJ): It's an honour, really. As Sid was saying, if 18 years ago, you say that you'd be part of the leadership group of a law firm like Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer, I don't think many of us would have believed that. So it's an unbelievable feeling. It's been quite a journey starting from NALSAR into partnership...Obviously, we stand on the shoulders of giants like Chris Parsons and others who've built that practice over 30 years.

For the Indian legal community, it gives us the insight into how to do business in India and the practice of law and that's what we'd like to communicate to the community of law students that hopefully will be watching this.

PS: What does this appointment mean personally for each one of you, and how do you plan to build on what Chris Parsons built?

Sid: When I joined the firm as a trainee, it was a deliberate choice to join Herbert Smith (as it was then known), because it already had a fantastic India practice and that was the attraction for me. In the last 15 years, that practice has grown exponentially. Chris led the practice and Alan, who is now the Chair of our India practice, has been building it with Chris for the last 20 years.

Over a period of time, with encouragement from Chris and Alan, we have been able to help build that India practice...Taking Indian corporates global is really attractive for me personally as an Indian. Helping some of our international clients navigate the Indian market, which can sometimes be complex for them, is a real joy because we add real value. It's very simple: just do good work and clients will follow.

There's another part to what we focus on beyond clients: the wider commitment to India. This was very important to Chris, Alan and others; and DJ and I are very keen to continue taking it forward. When I was hired from NLU Jodhpur many years ago, I was one of the first students to join the firm through a campus recruitment process. I now go down and interview students in Bangalore, Hyderabad, Kolkata, Jodhpur, Delhi, many other law schools. For me, it's a real pleasure to be able to do that.

Nowadays, a significant portion of our international trainee intake comes from India...It's great to see that people are exploring other avenues beyond engineering and medicine - they're moving into law and many are also getting international opportunities. For us, that wider commitment piece is important; we support a number of students from underprivileged backgrounds in their legal education. We run an international negotiation competition at NLU Delhi, where we bring students from the UK, Australia, Japan, etc, to create that international exposure for Indian law students. That's our way of saying we're really invested into the market.

DJ: I'll just add a note on the client work because I'm an energy and infrastructure finance lawyer. The sophistication that market has shown over the last decade or so that I've been working in India, is incredible. We're doing some of the largest deals in the world now; the banks are highly sophisticated, doing very complicated products. I'm very proud to be part of that energy and infrastructure story in a place like India because a lot of renewable energy is financed in the deals I do, and it's quite a nice "feel-good factor" for me as well. It's contributing to energy security, it's contributing to electrification.

Seeing that growth in the Indian market has been incredible because India's going to be one of the largest economies in the world very soon. It's a massive focus for the firm.

PS: Co-leadership can be powerful, but it can also be tricky. How do you divide the responsibility of this practice and what happens if there's a disagreement?

Sid: We have known each other for almost two decades. Even before we started working in the same firm, we were friends. We've always had an alignment of thoughts. That's how we also work together in front of the client and that's how we've contributed to the growth of this practice. We are philosophically very similar, as is Alan. So, if you look at the new leadership, we all have only one focus in mind: what's best for the client. That's our philosophy. It is also quite helpful that we don't have a single person leading the team, which allows us to maintain proper checks and balances. Every now and then, DJ will tell me that he doesn't think that's the right way of doing it and, frankly, you've got to respect his views...We don't have any separation really in terms of what he should do and what I should do. It is very organic.

DJ: As Sid said, we're a leadership group with Alan. You've got to trust the leaders of the firm. Whenever we come across a question which you may have different views on, the weight of the decision would always go towards what is the right thing for the client and what is the right thing for the firm. For me, those are one and the same. So it's not about Sid; it's not about me. We're all just custodians of these clients for future generations to come. Chris has left us a legacy, and if we can somehow build on that, it would be the measure of our success.

PS: India's inbound and outbound deal flow has shifted significantly over the past few years. Where do you see the biggest growth opportunities for the firm's India practice in the coming years?

Sid: It's a great question, and maybe we can divide it between practice areas and inbound/outbound. Historically, we've always had a great outbound practice; we act for pretty much all the big conglomerates in India and we handle some of their most important international deals. The Tata Group were our first client and since then, we have got a very big book of clients that we work with. With the Indian market booming and capital markets growing, the outbound opportunity has increased significantly in the last few years.

There's a great outbound opportunity, and for us as a network - we have 26 offices globally. So we are able to, as the leaders of the India team, help our clients go to different geographies and navigate some of the difficulties that they might face, whether it's in the US, LATAM, Europe, or in the Middle East. We think it'll continue to grow.

The inbound opportunity has been very interesting. India has, if you look at the last 10 years, gone through its little journey of things going up and down, but there has been a level of maturity in the market such that deal sizes and deal volumes have become of a steady nature.

I remember in 2014, I was writing an M&A article for the firm and there was $30 billion worth of deals in the country, and we said, "Hooray, what a great year!" In 2022, I was writing the same article in our annual publication, the Global M&A Report. That number was $150 billion. That's a 5x increase. That's what's happening in the country, particularly in the energy/infrastructure sectors. All of that is being driven by inbound and largely by sponsors.

Additionally, a lot of the major international strategics are coming to India and spending time here. Not just that, even if you look at Japanese investment into India, that's been significant. So if you purely look at the corporate M&A sphere, the flow has been both ways. Had you asked me this question a few years ago, "What's your practice look like?" I would have said largely outbound, but now it's a 50/50 split.

DJ: One thing that we should mention is the sophistication of the Indian legal market and the Indian law firms as well. The output is excellent, generally across the board. I think one of the big things that's helped recently is working even more with the Indian firms to try and bring and deliver those complicated deals. I think we're unique in that we have friends all over the country.

It's a conscious decision, again, made by the likes of Chris, Alan and Roddy. They made a decision different to some in the market, and I think that's paid dividends for us. We have friends all over India who can tell us what's hot, where the trends are and they often know it sooner than we do because they're on the ground. We obviously fly in and out, but they're living and breathing this day to day. So I think having those connections, building those connections again...I just want to acknowledge the support we've had from Indian firms in getting here.

PS: Magic Circle firms have all been ramping up their India practices. Why do you think Indian corporates or Indian companies should pick your firm over others?

Sid: The one thing that we bring is deep knowledge of the Indian legal landscape because we are dual-qualified, we spend a lot of time here, people like Alan have spent a lot of time understanding the Indian ecosystem. We understand how India operates, we understand how corporates work here.

But a large part of our work has been international, so we are really are international lawyers at the core. The uniqueness of HSF Kramer is to be able to bridge that cultural gap. We take pride in the legal work we do, but often just being a good technical lawyer isn't sufficient. In today's world, especially with AI and new legal technologies, what you really need is a person who can get things done and can find solutions. We are able to do that because we understand both ecosystems. Every now and then, somebody would want to speak in Hindi or their relevant regional language and we can speak that. That really helps us in staying ahead of some of our competitors.

DJ: It's knowing the legal pulse of the country. We've been Tier 1 for 17 years and keeping that profile is pretty important to us. We want to work on the most complicated and most important deals and deliver them for our clients. That is where I think we really shine.

PS: HSF Kramer has strong relationships here, but how do you both plan to deepen them with next-generation founders and family office principals? They may have different expectations of their legal advisors than traditional companies do.

Sid: The good news is we spend a lot of time in what I call "the trenches" on transactions. And that's with family owners and their promoters, law firms and law firm promoters. The friendship that one makes being in the trenches is something you can't artificially do. So for us it becomes quite easy, especially with the next generation. We've worked with lots of fantastic senior legal and commercial leaders of this country and of the world now. And as the next generation is coming through, it also helps us understand them because we know where they're coming from.

PS: What kind of an India practice team are you trying to build?

DJ: We obviously have an India group that focuses on India work, but we don't designate people to just do India work because it's also important that they grow. As Sid was saying, it's layering that international experience into the Indian context. Without that international experience, you won't be able to do that. So the lawyers we recruit go through the normal training contract route, like both Sid and I did. They then qualify and work in their practice areas. That recruitment process is ongoing - we're one of the few firms left that still come to campus and Sid does the interviews.

We don't pigeonhole people into being part of the India practice. Yes, there are people who naturally gravitate towards that, but that's as they get more senior, when they make a conscious career decision as to where they want to focus their energy. I think that's a good thing, because what you don't want is to force people to do certain kinds of work, and then they become a "one-trick pony".

Sid: We are slightly lucky, both DJ and I, because our India practice is not a "one-man army". Here we have DJ, Alan and I, along with quite a big group of partners who have been focused on India for a number of years, across practice areas. HSF Kramer is known for cross-border transactions and disputes globally. We have a number of partners focusing on employment, pensions, and tax. You've got specific partners who spend a lot of time and understand the market and we spend time with them as we do the transactions. So in a way, our job is very easy because we already have a pretty big team which is helping to understand the market. With the Indian market becoming a lot more sophisticated, a lot more global, with a lot more bigger deals and matters coming through, there's a lot more excitement in our network as well to be part of the India story.

When it comes to talent from India, we are again very lucky to hire some of the best from Indian law schools, and we get so many inbounds from people wanting to join us. It's a real pleasure to be able to get that kind of drive from Indian lawyers, not just from India but also Indian lawyers based in the US, UK, Europe, Japan. I wish I was as smart as them when I was hired.

PS: The Bar Council of India has allowed foreign law firms to come and set up offices in India. Has that changed HSF Kramer's plan to open an office in India?

Sid: India has been a very important market for our firm for many years and continues to be. As you know, a year ago we combined to become Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer and that’s going really well - we're all delighted about how things are progressing.

As a firm, we continue to assess our options for India and to be guided by what’s best for our clients and for the firm.

DJ: What it boils down to is the need for regulatory and, more importantly, tax certainty for foreign law firms with a presence on the ground. I suspect you'll get the same answer from most of the major international firms, and it's because of the way we're organised.

PS: For the next generation of Indian lawyers watching this, what do you want them to take from your story?

Sid: When I joined Herbert Smith, I did not know the difference between Herbert Smith and X-Y-Z English names of firms. I was very lucky to have interned with some of the most prominent Indian partners here. We were just shooting in the dark. All that we knew was we wanted to be international lawyers. But now that's completely changed.

When I joined Herbert Smith, there were literally two Indians in the building. It was just two of us. Now we, as a firm, have one of the largest cohorts of dual-qualified UK-India lawyers among international law firms. When I joined, our legal education was also quite nascent and we didn’t have that level of sophistication back then, so it was quite a steep learning curve for me. Thankfully, I found a few mentors, including Chris, [who guided me in those early years].

For young students coming to a Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer or indeed to any other city or global firm, there are lots of buddies and mentors to help you in terms of navigating the journey. I think that's great... For the younger generation, I would say work hard, work smart and always feel that you can achieve something that you never thought of - that's how at least I went about it.

DJ: Every journey is different, but I think the main point is it is a journey. I look back now 18 years ago - I came to London, I didn't know whether I'd stay, whether I'd get a job. The first day I started was when Lehman Brothers collapsed - and I started at a firm that did banking and finance, mainly. When you look back now, there are moments and, as Sid said, mentors - you've got people that support you, people that believe in you; all of that is important.

Indian students are incredible: they work incredibly hard, they're incredibly smart. The one thing I would say is that it's a marathon, not a sprint. So take your time, do it step-by-step and one day with a lot of luck and a lot of support, it'll all work out.